PNTV: Get Out of Your Mind & Into Your Life by Steven C. Hayes

Steven Hayes had panic attacks, debilitating panic attacks. What did he do? Well, he used those challenges as fuel to become one of the world's leading psychologists, helping other people who experience anxiety, depression, other psychological challenges, et cetera. Life is full of suffering. This is literally the first noble truth of Buddhism. Life is full of suffering, period. Stoicism. If you avoid life, if you reject life's challenges, good luck. Yeah. You gotta start with accepting that life is hard. Then what? Hi, this is Brian. Welcome back to another Philosopher's Notes TV. Today we've got another great book, long title, Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life by Steven Hayes. Steven Hayes is the founder of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. We talked about it in our last episode on Scott Barry Kaufman's great book, Rise Above. He is one of the most respected, impactful psychologists alive. The Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which we will talk about in a moment, has been scientifically proven to change lives, and I'm excited to share some of my favorite big ideas. As always, we've got a Philosopher's Note with 5 of my big ideas up here on the board. You can get access to the note for free, both the PDF you can print out or read in the Heroic app along with an MP3 if you want to listen on the go, which is what a lot of people do. We've got like 775 of these notes now. I was gonna do 100 back in the day. I think it was 18 years ago I had the idea, and now I'm approaching 1,000. Let's go! Kind of got on a roll. Anyway, let's get to work. We will start at the top with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Stephen Hayes is the founder. In our last episode, we talked about Scott Barry Kaufman and his heroic journey. Now, Scott Barry Kaufman is now one of the top 1% most cited psychologists studying how to live a good life. But he started his life as a young boy in special education. He was really anxious, really shy, and he had an auditory disability that made it difficult for him to understand directions he was given. He wound up spending a fair amount of time in special education. Then someone inspired him to rise above his limitations, and now he's Scott Barry Kaufman. Now, Steven Hayes has another really interesting story. Steven Hayes had panic attacks, debilitating panic attacks. What did he do? Well, he used those challenges as fuel to become one of the world's leading psychologists, helping other people who experience anxiety, depression, other psychological challenges et cetera. I too have had deep, significant mental health challenges, my own anxiety, my own depression, my own thinking about how to end my life, which is what's given me the compassion for myself back in that stage of my life, 25+ years ago now, and for those of us who continue to struggle with anxiety, depression, et cetera. So Stephen, been there, done that, got through that through practices that he employed and has now researched and studied for I don't know how many decades. This book was written 21 years ago, but really, really inspiring personal story and of course deep, deep wisdom. Now ACT is how you, uh, ACT, but it's pronounced ACT, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. Again, as we talked about in the last episode, 2 parts: acceptance, radical acceptance of whatever is happening in your life We're going to talk about the number one thing you can do that will most damage your mental and emotional well-being, which is to resist life. If you avoid life, if you reject life's challenges, good luck. You got to start with accepting that life is hard. Then what? You don't stop there. Then you commit to living a values-based life. You commit to being the type of human being you aspire to be. You accept Life's challenges. You accept your limitations— life acceptance, self-acceptance. Then you commit to living in integrity with your deepest values and with your highest self. We're going to end with an exercise, you going to your own funeral to get more clarity on those values you'd be wise to live today. But that's Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. You need both. Again, you need the acceptance and the commitment. In our next episode, we're going to talk about Marsha Linehan, another unbelievably heroic woman who had suicidal ideation, and 50 years later— she was in a mental health institution for 2 years, 18 years old, 19 years old, um, and then 50 years later she gave a talk at the same mental health institution about the therapy that she developed called dialectical behavior therapy, which is one of the most powerful for those with suicidal ideation, etc., etc. Same basic idea. You need to accept reality, then you need to commit to living in integrity with your highest selves. But in order to accept, you gotta realize that suffering is universal. Again, we talked about this with Scott Barry Kaufman. I referenced Phil Stutz. He says, look, life is full of suffering. This is literally the first noble truth of Buddhism. Life is full of suffering, period. Stoicism, same thing. Stephen's deeply influenced by both Buddhism And Stoicism. Cognitive behavior therapy is, is really an extension of ancient Stoic practices, particularly Epictetus's work. Albert Ellis, Aaron Beck, deeply influenced by Stoicism. But rule number 1 is life is full of suffering. Scott Barry Kaufman said, warning, you have a case of life. Nothing is wrong with you per se because you are experiencing what you're experiencing. And in the note, I talk about one of my coaches before I worked with Phil Stutz forever. I worked with Steve Chandler for years. Wonderful human being. We have tons of notes on his great books. But I remember once I was going through whatever I was going through, don't even remember what it was now, and Steve said, you think you're experiencing this because you're you, but you're not. You're experiencing this because you're human. It's not because you're you, it's because you're human. Now, all of us have our own issues which are contributing to whatever challenge We're facing. But we got to know suffering is universal. This is Kristin Neff, Self-Compassion 101. Then you got to know that suffering— there's an equation for this— suffering equals pain times resistance. To the extent you deny the presence of suffering, you resist it, then your suffering is going to go up. Pain is going to be there no matter what. Right? The amount of resistance that you give to something is going to increase your suffering. Some people say the equation is actually suffering equals pain to the power of resistance. It's not just multiplicative, it is exponentially going to increase your suffering. So again, the way we deal with that is the first part of ACT is acceptance. Accept that suffering is both universal and inevitable. Quit resisting it. Which leads us to the number one, eek! The number one thing that you could do that will lead to the highest level of suffering is avoidance. Technically, Stephen calls it experiential avoidance. So those of us who are really sensitive and easily get into a state of anxiety, etc., right? We, in our less healthy moments, can tend to start to avoid the things that trigger the emotional states we don't enjoy. Right? So first we think something's wrong with us. We forget that suffering is universal. Then we want to avoid all the things that may trigger any level of discomfort. Ah! Stephen says, that is one of the most Proven scientific things that will lead to your suffering. You don't want to avoid; you want to approach. So the opposite of avoiding life's challenges and the things that may trigger the emotional states you don't want to experience is to approach those things, or to have a willingness is a word that Stephen talks about. I'm going to read from the note. Which is why I've been holding on to this here. He says, to be willing and accepting means to be able to walk through the swamps of your difficult history when the swamps are directly on the path going in a direction you care about. You got to go through the challenging times in creating a coherent narrative of whatever's happened in your past and whatever's happening right now. You got to walk through the swamps to get to the life that you want. Marshall Linehan uses a— it's like a fire. If you're in a house that is on fire, you may want to go find a place in the house that's nice and comfortable, but guess what? The house is on fire. It's going to get to you. And she says, you probably, or you most certainly need to walk through the front door and get out. Now, that might be where the fire is hottest right now, but your way to save yourself is to go through the fire. To create the life that you want. That— and she uses the same word— requires a willingness. We accept that life is challenging. We're willing and committed to living in integrity with our values as we stop avoiding life's challenges and start approaching them. I always like to bring Phil Stutz's thing that I've extended here. He says, look, your infinite potential exists outside of your comfort zone. This is your comfort zone. Now, by definition, how does it feel when you leave your comfort zone? By definition, outside of your comfort zone feels uncomfortable. You feel discomfort. You feel the pain, the anxiety, whatever it is that arises for you when you're out of your comfort zone. But we need to stop avoiding that feeling and start approaching our life's challenges because now we know our potential exists on the other side of that Comfort zone. But the good news is the more you do that, the more your comfort zone expands. You're still going to feel uncomfortable, but the things that used to terrify you no longer do when you approach, approach, approach, approach, approach. The mantra that Phil uses that scientists talk about as well is bring it on. When you feel that niggle of fear or doubt or overwhelm or whatever that used to make you retreat into experiential avoidance, see if you can Flip that. And when do we flip the switch and say, bring it on? This is an opportunity for me to practice my philosophy. Bring it on. Phil says— Phil Stutz— you should scream in your head, bring it on. Then he says, pain sets me free. Pain sets me free. The willingness to experience that discomfort is what sets you free to unlock your ultimate potential. Again, easier said than done, but we want to pay attention to that. Walk through the swamps. Walk through the fire. to create the next best version of your life. Then we have the final idea here, which is a really, really powerful exercise for you to get clarity on how you can live in integrity with your values. Now again, remember, acceptance and commitment therapy. You accept life, then you commit to what? To living in integrity with your deepest values or virtues that you aspire to embody over the course of your life, right? Again, I'm feeling pain, I want to retreat, but I'm going to remember what I'm committed to. I want to remember for whom I'm committed to having strength. For me, it's my kids. I want to be the best version of myself so that I can show them what's possible and I can be there for them as both a model and a supporter for them to unleash their power. But anyway, one of the exercises that Steven encourages us to consider doing is this. And you've probably heard it before. If you've watched my stuff, you know that I've shared this. I share this exact exercise in basic training in our coach training program. It was the very first thing that I ever gave to my very first coaching clients. It's a eulogy exercise I got from Stephen Covey. So Stephen Covey, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you got to begin with the end in mind. Second habit of highly effective people. And he says the ultimate end Is the end of your life. So walk into a funeral, end-of-life memorial service, whatever that looks like for you. You show up, you pull up a seat, and you realize it's your funeral. It's your end-of-life ceremony. Get comfortable being uncomfortable. Now imagine who's going to give a eulogy for you, and what are they going to say? So Stephen Hayes says, imagine that. Imagine what they're going to say. What eulogy are you going to receive? And then he says, imagine 2 different ones. Imagine the one you hope to hear, right? Oh, they talk about how kind you were, how patient you were, how courageous you were, how considerate you were, whatever it was, whatever qualities, whatever values, whatever virtues you hope they're going to talk about. Remember, they're not going to talk about The size of your square footage of your house, how many cars you had, whatever other stuff. They're going to talk about who you were as a person, a human being, what values, what virtues you embodied. But he says, imagine that, but then imagine a second eulogy. And he says, look, a lot of time funerals, people aren't very honest. They're going to get up there, they're going to say nice things about someone who may not have been that nice. Right? I'm sure you've attended a funeral, you're like, I'm not quite sure that's the accurate representation of this human being. So he says, imagine the other potential eulogy where people actually said what they really thought. That's humbling. Goosebumps. What? All right, 2 eulogies: the one you don't want to receive and the one that you hope to receive. The reason you do that exercise in this context is to be able to come back to today and say, am I living in integrity with the eulogy I hope I receive, and hopefully that won't be. We don't know how long that is from now, right? Is that days? Is it weeks? Is it months? Deo volente, it's years or decades. But none of us are going to live forever. That moment's coming for all of us. And are we living in integrity with those values, with those virtues today? That's the question. Acceptance and commitment therapy. We accept life is hard. Then we commit to being in integrity with our best selves. especially when it's hard. That's how we forge antifragile confidence, which are the tattoos I have on the other side, each side of Heroic, which is the name of my next book, Forge Antifragile Confidence. Can't wait to share more with you of that soon. But who are you at your best? Are you being that version of you right now? Moment to moment to moment, today is the day. Let's live in integrity as we're willing to do the hard work to both accept and to walk through the swamp, walk through the fire, et cetera. Remember, The number one scientifically proven way to make sure that you don't have the life you want is to avoid things. We want to approach things. Bring it on. Of course it feels uncomfortable when you exit your comfort zone, but get a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit stronger. Stephen Kotler wrote a great book called *The Rise of Superman*. He says if you want to do the impossible, you do it four percent, four percent, four percent, four percent, four percent, four percent, four percent, four percent, four percent. You go a little bit outside of what you can do right now. A little bit outside of what you can do. 4%, 4%, 4%. But you do that day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, and he says the impossible for the current you is what's for breakfast for the future you. Goosebumps again. Me 25 years ago, I knew none of this stuff. Why I work so hard to try to share this with you is I wish I knew this stuff 25 years ago. Well, look, 4%, 4%, 4%, 4%, Now I'm able to do what that version of me would have thought is impossible, but it came incrementally. So use your next challenge as fuel to become the next best version of yourself as you accept, commit, and go do what needs to get done whether you feel like it or not, especially if you don't feel like it. Remember Stephen's story— panic attacks. Scott Barry Kaufman, special education, now one of the most renowned psychologists alive. The hero becomes strongest at their weakness. When they do the things that we're talking about, that is a quick look at this great book. Check out the notes. I don't know if I mentioned you get the notes for free. If you haven't already heard me say that before, but check it out. Listen to it, etc. We got 770 something of them. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and most importantly, what idea most jumped out and landed for you? I hope there was at least one idea. That kind of made you pause and say, wow, okay, that's, that's, that's something powerful. I want to think more about what is that for you and how can you apply that to your life today? Life-changing ideas are only life-changing if you live them. We got to move from theory to practice in order to get to mastery together today. So think about that. Get on that. I look forward to sharing more with you soon. Have a great day. See you. Hey, this is Brian. Thanks for spending a few minutes with me today. If you enjoyed it, please hit subscribe so that the best of the show keeps landing in your feed. Then head over to heroic.us. That's heroic.us, where you'll find the full library of wisdom I've created over the last 20 years, as well as the app, advanced training programs, coaching, and everything else we've built to help you optimize your life, actualize your potential, and live heroically. It is day 1. We are all in. Let's go.